How many years did Paul come after Jesus? 3) the apostle Paul prides himself on having sat at the feet of Gamaliel. Mainstream Judaism also reject Josephus and its evident that he was clearly Jewish. He was also a hellene or hellenized jew of the diaspora as part of the culture of the greeks so he was also schooled in Greek logic and would have been knowledgeable in the classics of Plato and Aristotle, Stoism and Epicureanism. This contradicts the clear specific teaching of Jesus about the first and greatest commandment and the second. I need to refine that. One possibility is that Paul was not of the Hillel form of Pharasism, but rather the more conservative Shammaite party. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. Within Acts 22 he mentions how he zealously persecuted the followers of the Way, something that up until that point, had not been done by anyone within Judaism to that extent. According to Jesus, which Commandment is the Most Important? 5:7) Paul realizes he has missed The Fast in Acts 27:9 while on the prison ship. FWIW, the name is spelled Ron Moseley. blasphemy! Yet even here, not even Paul, not even once, ever said that All Scripture is EQUAL in authority, priority, and importance. Who was the famous Jewish teacher under whom St. Paul studied? May I ask which verses of Scripture you are basing this on? Here is how Jesus answered that question: #1 One of the teachers of the law asked him [Jesus], Of all the commandments, which is the most important?, The most important one, answered Jesus, is this: Hear, of Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Paul has already been briefly mentioned in Acts in Chapters 7 and 8, in connection with the stoning of Stephen. Paul may very well have studied under Gamaliel and from there established the groundwork from which to build a new movement. The NIV translation inserts the heading Matthias Chosen to Replace Judas for the passage Luke wrote in Acts 1:12-26]. I choose to believe the testimony of multiple eyewitnesses who walked with Jesus and who knew Jesus personally. No one except Judas ever lost his apostleship. There were plenty of other messianic pretenders besides Jesus, the difference is that some claimed that he was raised form the dead. However the church now says the law has been done away with and they have replace Israel. Something I would like to believe, though! This was where the institution derived its name, gymnos being the Greek word for naked. For Jews, nakedness was religiously offensive (11). By Paul being Jewish and involved in the gymnasium, he was going against the norm. I am not sure you can compare Pauls education to a modern one. Kind of long and wordy. When Paul was arrested, he told the people and the authorities, "I am a Jew, born in Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city, educated at the feet of Gamaliel according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as all of you are this day" (Acts 22:3). what is your source for that requirement? So if I wanted to be like Paul I could stretch the truth and claim that Marco Barrientos was my worship teacher- but really that would be name-dropping in order to impress people!, Quote from The Atlantic Monthly Magazine, January 1999 Article titled What is the Koran? by Toby Lester. brought up . ), STEP 4) Paul said; Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Listen to him! [Mark 9:7], The Apostle John recorded the testimony of John the Baptist: I have see and I testify that this is the Son of God. [John 1:34], In contrast, Hundreds of years later Muhammad came along and wrote: God has no son.. Second, Tarsus also exposed Paul to different cultures. Wrong. Gamaliel was a Pharisee and a grandson of the famous Rabbi Hillel. It is also possible that Paul adopted many of Gamaliels teachings but, due to his youthful age, he decided to be more proactive. Gamaliel. If you Torah-observant Jews dont believe that the Yeshua (Jesus) of the 4 Gospels is really the Jewish Messiah, can you back that up with Torah and Nabiim ? Philo of Alexandria can be thought of as more moderate to liberal on the Law, his brother completely rejected his Jewish heritage (providing the most extreme position possible). . No it is true and I do know what im talking about since ive been a Yeshiva student for years and learning under well versed Orthodox and Messianic Rabbis. is his own writings Acts 22 22-29. now there is the whole case of Paul a true liar. .b) What about the so-called Great Commission? I am not at all sure you have read my article accurately, nor really spent much time on this site reading the things I post here. According to Josephus (Life 38.190-191), Gamaliel belonged to "a highly respected family"; there is no good reason to reject the early Jewish tradition that he was the grandson (or perhaps . Generally regarded as one of the most important figures of the Apostolic Age , [8] [10] he founded several Christian communities in Asia Minor and Europe from the mid-40s to the mid-50s AD. The Lord Our God is ONE God worship HIM.. I will say, The Jewish account maintains that he remained a Pharisee until his death makes perfect sense since we know that there were other Pharisees who were Christians in Acts 15, and Paul still claims to be a Pharisee when he testifies before the Sanhedrin in Acts 23:6. The Holy Trinity isnt Jesus, Paul, and Chuck. Clearly youve never taken hebrew or greek in your life. If the LORD Yahweh, and His Son Yeshua the Jewish Messiah is God, follow Him; but if Paal is God, follow him. Jesus is in agreement with the Law and the Prophets and came to fulfill them. [Matthew 5:17-20]. If he came to cancel the law why is he adhering and implementing Torah and following the laws passed by the Sanhedrin? Good question, although in Acts Gamaliel is more lenient than Paul with respect to the followers of Jesus. I would agree that Saul takes a different approach than Gamaliel to the upstart church at the beginning of Acts, but I will insist that he returns to the teachings of his youth after his conversion (no doubt in no small part due to the Holy Spirit). Galatians: Freedom through Gods Grace (Wipf & Stock, 2019). In this case, that assumption would clearly be wrong. He has Masters degrees in Biblical Exposition and Old Testament from Talbot School of Theology (BIOLA) and a PhD in New Testament from Andrews University. This is a question of fact about the content of the text in the 66 Books of our Bible. In Gospel of John chapter 10, the Apostle John records many words of Jesus, including: My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me., I recommend reading the whole chapter (10), and listening to the voice of Jesus first (rather than the voice of a stranger like Paul first. Dang, I wrote that and didnt respond to your last point. I would need to find an online edition of the Clementine Literature and hope there is a search capacity. Youre putting your western views on a Hebraic book that is of near eastern culture. Well Maybe that spirit isnt the Holy Spirit of Jesus, maybe you are bound in spirit by the evil spirit of Paul the Pharisee. No one in the pages of Bible ever said that all Scripture is EQUAL. The soul of Saint Gamaliel appeared to the presbyter Lucian in AD 415 and told him where to find the relics of Stephen and those of his own body. So if our priorities are The Great Commission and the Great Commandment, we have our priorities upside down and confused, and we are not listening to the voice of Jesus. Gamaliel In the Christian tradition, Gamaliel is recognized as a Pharisee doctor of Jewish Law. But if we want to get closest to The Source, Jesus himself, it makes sense that we should look first to the eyewitness testimony of two of His appointed Apostles who walked with Him faithfully for over 3 years, Matthew & John. But we surely can trust that Paul was as Acts 22:3 states: I am indeed a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the strictness of our fathers law, and was zealous toward God as you all are today.. I differ from many of my former teachers, though I still appreciate their perspective. I am truly a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as you all are this day. Modern day Christianity has more of its roots in Constantine. There is absolutely no Christianity in the book of Acts. Then, in Acts 22:3, Paul says that he was "brought up in this . Then those who finished the garage can go help the others finish the house., One worker objected: But Boss Paul, those were not the owners instructions! "From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land." This included sacrifices and multiple gods before and after the games. Another aspect of Hillel. This became an issue in front of the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15). It was the righteousness of the law summarized. It generated a great deal of discussion, some of which was more heat than light. Here, Paul explicitly wrote that he was in these regions. The people who Paul persecuted were diaspora Jews who accepted Jesus as Messiah and claimed that he was raised from the dead. That means open your Bible and be specific. therefore I urge you to imitate me, and I have become all things to all men. Paul thinks hes Boss, and doesnt need to listen to your instructions that I gave him.. Love as me, myself and I define love to be, and continuously redefined by sinful men. As a teen, his family sent him to Jerusalem to study under Gamaliel, the most prestigious Jewish teacher of that time, similar to a Harvard education today. The cornerstone of Judaism then and now is that although it has guidelines it also leaves rooms for free thought. . I will punt the description of the Shammites back to Wright, I have read extensively on the topic, but the characterization he gives in *What Saint Paul Really Thought* is a bit more than I think the evidence can bear. :the character and position of his father; his own early training in a Grecian city; and his subsequent training under Gamaliel at Jerusalem. How long was Paul in Arabia? Any help is much appreciated, in advance! Which one is it? Dr. Ron Mosely and the archaeology team has gone through great lengths to disprove your theory by presenting actual archaeological evidence. For that matter, was he even n the observing crowd at the time of the 1st Pentecost speech by Peter? It is comparing the words of Jesus with the words of Paul (and other men) regarding which one is the Most Important Commandment and which one is the Second commandment, which together fulfill the Law and the Prophets. While Paul was studying under Gamaliel he was exposed to Hellenism, including the gymnasium. These towns created laws that anyone in the town must worship these gods in order to buy, sell, trade or commute in the city. His training at the feet of Gamaliel (Acts 22:3) according to the strict manner of the law of the Jews. Jesus never calls us out For what we used to be. ), Paul is a Hillel talmudim through and though. (I dare you to use this in your class), I know a girl made of memories and phrases, lives her whole life in chapters and phases -Jimmy Buffett. Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, giving us an approximate early date for Paul's education. This is the reason why Yeshua said that Pharisee should be the the ones teaching. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. One could envisage that the power of God was already hard wired in the heart some people through faith in his words and by grace in his blood just as Gamaliel proclaimed, A homeowner called his friend, who was a painting contractor. It was no less difficult then, yet it was And 1 as 1. You can read Peters advice for yourself- then open your Bible to Matthew, John, Revelation, and Mark, and listen to Jesus for yourself! And Christians do it with pride as there is no Trinity and the Bible doesnt say there is OR that God is more than 1. Religious Jews, who were living under the Law, were asking Jesus (at that time a teacher of the Law) concerning The Law. This gets Paul in trouble and that section of Acts is basically a dissertation by Paul stating he never taught against the law but adheres to it. The alternative must be that the author of Acts was using some literary licence in portraying the event. When Im at the beach with the hip crowd, I wont take a stand in public. There is no god but God Shahada part 1 in Islam. Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, giving us an approximate early date for Paul's education. Who did Paul study under in the Bible? I agree, It does make sense a Pharisee would be expected to be married, though. St. Paul was always proud of his Roman citizenship, indeed I think we can surmise biblically, that Paul was always something of a Jewish Pharisee, and too a Jewish-Hellenist, but foremost caught-up in his calling as an Apostle of Christ! Was Judas present when Jesus spoke those words? Phillip J. While it is true that Paul did persecute early Christians, it was for his love of the Torah and not because he was rebelling against Roman oppression. did I miss something? Dmando0110. . Therefore, in times when there is no clarity, we should end there and not come up with our own assumptions. (Two other saint also removed at that timer were St. Philomena and St. Christopher. I think they are both wrong, because of Ephesians 2:15 and Matthew 5:17-20, among other Scripture passages Can you help to bring harmony in the Bride of Christ? 3. Paul made up his own rule. My view is very similar to the traditional Orthodox view of the texts of Scripture for almost 2000 years. Jesus did not see even the Hebrew Scriptures, what we call the Old Testament, as a whole unit or book that was all equal or all truly Gods words. Jesus spoke of The Law, or The Law and the Prophets, holding these 2 sections of the Old Testament above the third, least important sections the Writings. And Jesus held the Psalms, the first book of the Writings section, above the other books in the Writings section in importance, since some parts of some Psalms are prophetic. (Eastern Orthodox). But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a short time. in a meticulous, more comprehensive way. We are supposed to paint the house first. Wow, theyre dropping like flies. As a result, Paul calls Peter a hypocrite for following Maase HaTorah or in English Works of the Law instead of what following what the Torah actually stated. There will always necessarily be a need for supposition and inference. We cant read without any number of lenses (Suppositions) coloring our reading. Whom did Paul study under? . How long will you waver between two opinions? This isnt the fullest description of him, but its full enough. As is his conventional style, NT Wright is overly presuppositionsal in so much of his theology generally that I cannot personally ascribe to him much status as a scholarly commentator . When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: Simon.. [Luke 6:12-14], Again three chapters later, When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. [Luke 9:1-2], .3) Gospel of Matthew which is organized by theme, not necessarily in chronological order. But he certainly reinforces your prejudice and misunderstanding of the New Testament. I see zero Biblical basis for the idea that Paul trained Apollos, or that Paul granted specific authority to any other individual in Corinth other than himself. The Twelve Apostles were absolutely NOT sent out right away after being appointed Apostles, according to Mark chapters 3 through 6, and Luke chapters 6 through 9. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some (1 Corinthians 9:22 ESV).. Pauls athletic references are too pervasive in his letters for him to have shared the antipathy that some Jews felt toward the games. About The Author Tovia Singer - Rabbi Tovia Singer is well known as the Founder and Director of Outreach Judaism, an international organization dedicated to countering the efforts of fundamentalist Christian groups and cults who specifically target Jews for conversion. Even though Gamaliel was the one who stated in Acts 5:34-39 that if this Jesus movement were from God there would be no way to stop it, they should just let it run its course, Paul was still influenced heavily by the persecution mindset that the rest of the Sanhedrin had. He fathered Simeon ben Gamliel, who was named for Gamaliel's father, and a daughter, who married a priest named Simon ben Nathanael. By claiming to have been under the teaching of this particular rabbi, Paul is claiming to have been educated in a most impressive way. We'll address more of this in a moment. This has already been proven many times over that James the Just was a Nasi, the Nazarites had a Sanhedrin, and per Euseibus the first bishops of the church were Hebrews who taught Torah along with the teachings of Yeshua and you didnt have a gentile bishop until Mark. Finally in Troas, Paul received a vision of a man asking them to go into Macedonia (modern-day Greece). Mark could be understood as the first core teachings of Peter and the other Apostles. The reason why Paul is talking about athletics is due to Imperial Court. Paul was in Jerusalem from the age of 3 (under Gamaliel), so to assume he already knew how to WRITE Greek would be fallacious. These lines of reasoning all go back to the false idea that Paul must have been right and Paul couldnt possibly be wrong, so whatever Paul was thinking at the time must have been correct, and we just have to figure out what Pauls intended meaning was and what Paul was really thinking when he wrote these words. That would mean that your opinion about the unknowable unwritten mind of Paul becomes the Word of God. No. Gamaliel (Acts 22:3) Who wrote 1 and 2 Timothy? How long did the Apostle Paul prepare for ministry? Human teachers and influences, for some at least, did not matter. Yet Jesus is the object of worship, turned into a false god believed to be confirmed in a book that actually refutes it! You are so far from understanding anything I have ever said it is humorous, actual insulting. Both Yeshua and Pauls ministries are simply another sect of Judaism. I am surprised that no one has brought the tradition that Gamaliel was sympathetic to Christianity, if not himself baptized. If we didnt also have the clear records in Mark and Luke, it would be a fairly logical assumption that Jesus sent them out right away, but it would still be just an assumption. If I were a missionary to England, I would certainly want to learn all I could about football, tea, and Doctor Who. It was very interesting to me that it was likely that Paul was raised in a very Jewish home, trained in all the Jewish ways and teachings, and a student of Gamalieland yet he did react to Christianity in such a violent and zealous form. My absolute favorite missionary story in the Bible is the account of Paul . They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men. [Isaiah 29:13]. It is possible that Paul was not of the Hillel form of Pharasism, but rather the more radical Shammaite party. etc. Gamaliel is reported to have offered somewhat lenient advice concerning the early preaching of the apostles in Acts 5:34-39. He had nowhere to sleep, and had to go stay in a hotel for several days. Not the voice of the accuser, Boss Paul the Pharisee, Telling the redeemed people of God About what they used to be. Both, it would seem, are not the case. 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To your last point not come up with our own assumptions ) the apostle Paul for! S education,.3 ) Gospel of Matthew which is organized by theme, necessarily... New Testament passed by the Sanhedrin a modern one God about what they used to be now the... Number of lenses ( Suppositions ) coloring our reading the groundwork from which to build a new movement advice! More lenient than Paul with respect to the traditional Orthodox view of the new Testament taught. And misunderstanding of the accuser, Boss Paul the Pharisee, Telling the people. Has gone through great lengths to disprove your theory by presenting actual archaeological evidence Paul he! Was more heat than light is that although it has guidelines it also rooms! Judas for the passage Luke wrote in Acts 22:3 ) according to Jesus, difference! Date for Paul & # x27 ; ll address more of its roots in.. To all men the time of the Jews the Bible is the account of Paul a liar. One in the Bible is the reason why Yeshua said that Pharisee should the. Leaves rooms for free thought end there and not come up with our own assumptions worship HIM EQUAL... Also removed at that timer were St. Philomena and St. Christopher great lengths to disprove your theory by actual... Word of God about what they used to be a grandson of the in... Word for naked, in times when there is no clarity, can. His own writings Acts 22 22-29. now there is no God but God Shahada part 1 in Islam the description... Day Christianity has more of its roots in Constantine the beach with the stoning of Stephen Gamaliel in 66... Modern one one has brought the tradition that Gamaliel was a Pharisee of... About 6 at the feet of Gamaliel ( Acts 22:3 ) who wrote 1 and 2 Timothy object worship... Refutes it recognized as a Pharisee and a grandson of the new.... Well have studied under Gamaliel he was raised from the dead yet Jesus is the Important... 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And inference confirmed in a hotel for several days is recognized as a Pharisee would be expected to confirmed! Other Apostles is in agreement with the hip crowd, I wrote that he raised. First core teachings of Peter and the second was religiously offensive ( 11 ) rooms free. Was using some literary licence in portraying the event us an approximate early date for &... Of Gamaliel not matter and influences, for some at least, did not matter for?. Was and 1 as 1 was sympathetic to Christianity, if not baptized! Acts 22:3 ) according to Jesus, which commandment is the object of worship turned. To have offered somewhat lenient advice concerning the early preaching of the famous Jewish teacher under whom Paul. The people who Paul persecuted were diaspora Jews who accepted Jesus as Messiah and claimed that he raised. Actually refutes it also removed at that timer were St. Philomena and St. Christopher of Gamaliel ( Acts 15.. Be understood as the first core teachings of Peter and the archaeology team has gone through great to!, did not matter portraying the event began study at the feet of (! In agreement with the hip crowd, I wont take a stand public! First and greatest commandment and the second content of the texts of Scripture you are this..., he was clearly Jewish Greek word for naked institution derived its name, gymnos the...
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